Jazzman61

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

I agree with your argument her jazzman.  I don't want to see Felix Pie traded away for a Brian Roberts or Erik Bedard.  He has not hit MLB pitching YET, but he will soon.  theQWERTY1 wrote a very good post analyzing this same topic.  People have been far too quick to judge Pie, and I think that it is a little unfair.  I want to see what the kid can do with a full season under his belt.

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

If what I've heard is true and Pie has struggled in winter ball, it's damn sure the real baseball guys know about it too. Therefore, now is probably the worst time to trade Pie. His stock is depressed to the point that the Cubs just might as well keep him and see if they can make a diamond out of broken glass.

You bring up an interesting point about the Cubs' current development personnel, Jazz. Perhaps they'll start looking at some different ways for Pie to optimize his talents. Offensively, I don't see him ever becoming a significant power threat, though I'm sure the team would love to work on his ability to hit gappers that have him at 3rd base where mere mortals might have to pull up at 2nd. That's where Pie's speed currently is -- the open-field sprint as opposed to acceleration out of the block. But running is a very coachable activity, probably even more so than hitting. And it's just as plausible to beat a pitcher with speed as with a bat. Coleman did it. Wills did it. (I did it for 2 years in high school because I just flat out sucked big time when I tried to hit it out of the infield). You use what you got. Even Kingman knew that much.

It'll be interesting to see if they start working on Pie's bunting game (and there are a LOT of effective ways to bunt your way on), his slap hitting game, and his SB game. Right now, his SB game is held back by a poor ability to read pitchers' motions, and to get a good jump when he does. That can also be coached. Heck, Soriano can do it, for all the bread he's being paid. Soriano gets excellent reads time after time.

That's my two cents. Or three. But you're bloggin' so, hell, I'll throw it up on the board and see what sticks.

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

Well said, Jazzman. While I could understand the Cubs not playing him much last season when he struggled during the playoff push, it has been one of the more bizarre discussion points to me this offseason for many fans to interpret that to mean Pie will never hit major league pitching. Those same fans would be the ones crying "why did we trade this guy?" if he is traded elsewhere and succeeds.

The kid has all the potential in the world. The only thing he has not had up to this point is the opportunity to be in the lineup regurlarly for the Cubs. But 177 ABs, many of them pinch hitting, are not enough to judge his ultimate success at the big league level. I think that given the opportunity, he can make the necessary adjustments and become a quality contributor to the Cubs.

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

I couldn't agree more with this post. Give him a chance! Look at some stats from the below players. I promise you'll recognize some of them. I'm not comparing Felix Pie to them, but just making the point that you can't prove anything from 177 ABs.

Guys Below are listed with their first season with at least 100AB

Carl Crawford

Brian Roberts

Torri Hunter

Barry Bonds

Sammy Sosa

Jim Thome

Miguel Tejada

Alex Rodriguez

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

Sorry about that:

Guys Below are listed with their first season with at least 100AB

                                                   AB                          AVG.                      H              

Carl Crawford                     259                         .259                      67

Brian Roberts                    273                           .253                      69

Torri Hunter                        384                         .255                       98

Barry Bonds                        413                       .223                        92

Sammy Sosa                     183                       .257                         47

Jim Thome                        117                        .205                       24

Miguel Tejada                   365                       .233                         85

Alex Rodriguez                  142                     . 232                         33

I think some of these guys have had decent careers so far !!!

Let's see what Pie can do as a starting in CF!

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

I follow your logic here, but have to disagree slightly.  The Cubs know how to develop pitchers - proven track record of that.  They have also proven without a doubt that they cannot develop hitters - proven track record of that. 

Pie certainly is the "toolsy" type of player that is easy to fall in love with.  He's fast, athletic, great arm, etc.  And there is no way I would include him in a deal for Brian Roberts.  I wouldn't even complete that thought, much less trade.  But if you can send him over for Bedard, I'd say that is too tempting to pass up.  The Cubs would be overwhelming favorites to win the division with the addition of a pitcher like him.  And he's still a young man, so you wouldn't be loaning him for a year before his arm falls off (assuming we are smart enough to lock him down to a long-term deal before we acquire him).  Zambrano, Bedard, Lilly, Hill and whoever, look a heck of a lot better to me than what we're shaping up to have right now.

Pie would be a steep price to pay, but I'd rather have the known commodity (Bedard) than the prospect who might turn a corner (Pie).

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

 JuNtAvIrUs -

Since the failure of Corey Patterson, the Cubs managemnet staff has changed at the MLB level, AAA level, and both AA teams.  Hendry has added scouts and other instuctors as well.  My point is that the "teaching" staff has changed.  This is not the same organization that tried to develop previous hitters.  I can live with giving the chance to succeed or fail with a select few of the current crop of prospects before saying that they cannot develop non-pitching talent. 

I think it's a nonsensical argument to blame the present instuctors for the failures of past instructors. 

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

There's nothing nonsensical about it.  It's an organization-wide problem that isn't going to go away with new hires.  If those new hires actually show they're up to the task of developing young talent, then you have something.  I can tell you, it would make me a very happy Cubs fan.  But until results are produced and our farm system starts building some decent hitters (Soto hopefully), we have a problem.  New coaches are nothing without concrete results.

And loosely tied to that conversation, I still think if we have the opportunity to swing a deal for Bedard with Pie as the centerpiece, we go for it.  He would be a huge addition and make us the frontrunner to win the division.  And if we do, in a 5 game series you have Z, Bedard and Hill/Lilly going 1, 2, 3.  That is a formidable staff. 

Do Not Trade Felix Pie

I think the change is more than a few new hires.  But, at any rate, my point is they have not been given that chance.  Without having that chance, we do not know that they can or cannot.  The Logo nor the history of the club does not develop players.  Coaches and instructors do.  Then, every player is an individual personality.  They have to listen and work hard.  I do not know Felix Pie personally so, perhaps his makeup is not conducive to finding himself.  But, if Jim Hendry's gut, scouts, or instructors tell him to hold on to the guy, I am cool with that.  Some prospect do blossom.   Expecting the same results from new instructors because they are now Cubs instuctors makes no sense.